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Out of Touch It is most interesting that touch213, the resident “Black expert” here in Asia Friendfinder dares to claim that somehow Asians in America OWE almost everything they have to Blacks and that Asians have contributed to the social and economic plight of the larger Black community as demonstrated in his remarks in Change. To that I say, “B S !” Most of that failure lies in what Booker T. Washington called a “class of coloured people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public." Mr. Touch seeks to blame Asian Americans for the economic and social conditions of the Black community on “late arriving Asians” without wanting to examine the root causes for the Black failure. Black leaders who suppor his position include Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Black leaders who deviate from this viewpoint, including Colin Powel and Bill Cosby, are often villified by the Black community as “Uncle Toms.” Mr. Touch fails to understand that Asians in America have a history of their own civil rights movement and a long history of racial discrimination from both White and Black America. Asian Filipinos were imported into Mexico as early 1587 aboard the Manila Galleons and sold into slavery in Spanish controlled territories along the Gulf of Mexico including what would later become the United States. In fact, the first slaves in the U.S. were not Blacks as Mr. Touch would have us believe but Filipinos consigned to Florida in the late 1590s. This was long before Blacks were first sold into slavery at Jamestown in 1619. Chinese were imported into California during the Gold Rush era to work the mines. Although not slaves, the Chinese were forced to do “bitter labor” or 苦力 in the California gold fields in the 1850s and later the railroads in the American West. Former slave owners supported the importation of coolies into the American South after the Civil War to replace emancipated slaves who refused to work on the plantations. They were also to rebuild the damaged railroad system and reclaim swamp land. They were replacement “slave labor.” This short-term experiment failed as Blacks began to compete against the coolie laborers and thus Blacks in many areas freely became sharecroppers (essentially an economic form of slavery that tied the Blacks to the land). In 1882 Chinese Exclusion Act passed by Congress prevented future immigration of Chinese and later other Asians to the United States. The U.S. courts also engaged in this creation of second class citizen by refusing to recognize their civil rights until the 1940s. From 1882 through 1965 Asian Americans, including Japanese, Koreans, Filipinos, and Chinese fought for their own civil rights in the United States without the help of the Black community. In fact, on many occasions, the Black community supported White racist attitudes towards Asians and continue to do so to the present. Mr. Touch feels the current situation of Blacks in America is the fault of Asians in America who have taken advantage of every opportunity to advance themselves to include education and business opportunities. It is not the fault of the Asian American community for the dysfunction of the Black family structure that fails to instill the importance of education in their nor the ability to create businesses to support the Black community. Mr. Touch claims Asians in the United States are more likely to default on government backed loans. However, a government study in 2003 found that although there some fraud was committed within the Asian community over ninety percent of defaults was attributed to Blacks and Whites. Again, Mr. Touch uses slective anecdotal evidence to support his poorly researched position. The violent assault on Asian Americans by Blacks continues with examples of the Black riots against Koreans in Los Angeles in 1992, the objection of Blacks against a well qualified Korean to take over the pooly functioning Washington, D.C. school system (after a failure of leadership by a string of Black Superintendents), and a long string of violent Black initiated racial incidents against the Asian community. Mr. Touch, you seem to be part of the “you owe me for the sins of others” collective. You seem to demand a special kind of respect from Asians. If they disagree with your position, you claim they are racist against African Americans. What about the lack of respect given to Asians by the Black community? We do not owe you anything at all. However, you do owe Asian Americans an apology. VICTORY LEE (Thank you MS Word for Spelling and Grammar Checker) |
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1/22/2008 12:24 am |
Again the race card! When will people stop with the generalization because of the color of skin they all think alike and are alike of that race. Yes there will always be some bigots in the crowd but let them believe in there stupidity because the intelligent person judges one what they do and say not where they come from and the color of there skin. Personally had my behind kicked and beaten when moved to Texas because I was from Illinois, 30 miles from St.Louise Mo, by other white men. With a Grandfather killed in the civil war fighting for the North it didn't matter until I had my teeth knocked out. Decided it wasn't worth it and became a man from Missouri.Yes there are people that still live in the past and I choose to pass them. I think like you is best to just thinking about the future but you know is hard to do that sometimes cause Asian business often get attacked by Black community and Rainbow Coalition often try to extort donations from Asians cause we not hiring enough Black peoples. You know that Japanese car companies build cars in America so Americans can have jobs. Did you know is cheaper to build the same cars in Asia and then export to USA and sell here and less headache cause not have to worry about unions and pension and health benefits and environmental concerns.
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1/22/2008 12:20 am |
I myself am very concerned about two populaces in the world,these days.1.The muslim(believer in God)globaly.2.People who suffer from alcohol and drug abuse-who WANT to recover and are willing to do the work it takes.All the rest,I just have pitty for and pray for them when I can. So you wanna be a muslim then is your belief you keep inside you and inside your house and inside your temples. Not try to make me belive what you belive cause I have other belive.
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1/16/2008 6:22 pm |
I myself am very concerned about two populaces in the world,these days.1.The muslim(believer in God)globaly.2.People who suffer from alcohol and drug abuse-who WANT to recover and are willing to do the work it takes.All the rest,I just have pitty for and pray for them when I can.
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1/16/2008 6:12 pm |
Some very wise person i once heard,had said;"If you're talkin' about the problem,you're obviously not talking about the solution.
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1/16/2008 2:57 am |
(Thank you MS Word for Spelling and Grammar Checker) I dont buy this, MS Word doesnt improve your English. However, my english is actually quite excellent when I think slower then my fingers can type. Why don't you show me how good your english is and engage me in a conversation just like Touch just did. I have several new topics you can choose to show me how good your writing skills are. VICKY
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1/15/2008 5:55 pm |
Again the race card! When will people stop with the generalization because of the color of skin they all think alike and are alike of that race. Yes there will always be some bigots in the crowd but let them believe in there stupidity because the intelligent person judges one what they do and say not where they come from and the color of there skin. Personally had my behind kicked and beaten when moved to Texas because I was from Illinois, 30 miles from St.Louise Mo, by other white men. With a Grandfather killed in the civil war fighting for the North it didn't matter until I had my teeth knocked out. Decided it wasn't worth it and became a man from Missouri.Yes there are people that still live in the past and I choose to pass them.
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1/14/2008 4:58 pm |
I am reading this post.. and I will truthfully and openly admint that I had no idea that such madness was being pushed upon asian to that degree.. I do know I've heard blacks make comments when foreigners come and they don't speak the language, and I've seen white do the same.. and here in the south it's even more some stupidity that comes out of peoples mouth... saying stuff like why don't they learn to speak the language and they say the same things about Spanish speakingpeople.. but I've been to spanish speaking countries and to Asian lanaguage countries.. and I always tell people.. don't judge people by the way they speak.. they are doing much better than the average america white or black could do if they were in an Asian country... I make full effort to try and understand anyone that speaks broken English.. I am proud of the fact that when I was working for the Airline.. any time the Asian or latin speaking people had to write up incident of whatever they'd always come to me and they'd always tell me.. that I was the only one who makes effort to understand them... and when I'd write it, they would always come back and tell me they appreciated it becase it said just what they wanted to say and the way they wanted it said.. I wrote somethin on here once.. about how you go to an Asian country they do everything they can to try and help you to understand and try their best to communicate and they keep a smile all the while to show you that they are not frustrated with trying to help but willing to do so.. here in this country.. people make them feel like crap.. and then try and put them down because they pronounce things differently.. and it's patehtic for a country that claims it's a first world power country, for the people to be so ignorant of other ethnicities and the challenge they are facing... I'm amazed at the speed in which they learn english... I liked this girls who worked at a chinese food place in lakewood, and she was such a nice woman.. but she was afraid to date me becase she was afraid I'd not understand her and she kept telling me that she was afraid..of the communicating aspect.. but the more I went there the more she became comfortable talking to me..and she was developing her english very well..but she studied all the time between the servicing of customers.. and then took class when she was off work.. in this country they have a habit of thinking people to be less smart if they don't spek the language and they even had issues at work of black and white people complaining about spanish people not speaking english they even tried to impose a rule that they could not speak spanish unless on breaks... fortunately HR would not support that rule.. but I can figure out what they are saying but watching, listening and paying attention ... and I always tell people.. go to their country and see who well you do not knowing the language.. and then how will you like it to be assumed stupid becase you don't know the language.. I make my way In thailand because the women can speak english however broken I can understand them and the guys I've dealt with there when conducting business are very helpful in trying to help me communicate. My last trip.. they did everything to help me communicate and brought me dictionaries we put picture up on the computer screen and then they'd tell me how to say it in their language... I appreciated it... and I made sure that I left very nice tips for all of them when It was time to go and gave them the look in the eyes to say thank you.. so my experiences of travels is always good.. and I am ever so thankful they embrace foreigners in their lands and make such efforts to make you comfortable and they share with you what are their traditions so you won't do things that are offensive to their culture.. here people make too many foreigners feel uninvited.. and it's such a terrible thing.. I wish many american people had some of the work ethics of Asian people.. here you can put people American people in a job they look down upon and they treat the job like crap.. in Asian locations they respect all work.. as long as it's honest work.. and they convey courteous manner to you.. I've commented about that in my posting on various instances.. I was amazed when I first went to thailand and girls who were simplky beautiful when they talk about the kind of work they do or have done.. and I'd think.. there is no way you can get women in america to do this work and if the american girls look good they will not even consider some work.. where as in Asian countries and in latin countries they do the work and do it with a smile of pride in the fact of having honest employment. so theres a lot of things that people need to pay attention.. and they may find less and less and less reason to be rude and negative toward Asian people... or any other people for that matter. I;ve complained to many establishments since I've been in the south about the people not being courteous and acting as if it's a burden to serve the customer.. and these people are many times black and some whites.. who act like they don't want to be on the job.. but in some regions.. I know the Korean shop keepers get tired of people coming in with not enough money for what they want, and doing various things as if they can talk to them any-kind of way... and they are not as eager to see them coming back to their place.. and I can't blame them... they should refuse the service but I know they can't becase they don't want people coming back damaging their place of business.. before I left LA, my doctor was a Korean lady and she helped me more than the doctore I had had for over 20 yrs. and I had a Indian cardiologist and Hawaiian-Japanese chiropractor, and many things I did business person and professional were Asian people... one guy I helped him land the biggest contract his company had to supply a product to our company.. not because he was Asian but because he did the work that was necessary to meet the spec's that I addressed ... recently over the interent.. I met this lady in china who has made the logo's for my project business and she is going to help me with all sorts of other things, which are not even part of their basic business. I called stateside and got a few black and white people on the phone and they wanted to charge me crazy fees and the first thing out their mouth is "no we don't do this or that"... but the Asian lady said it's not our area of business but I can find for you the things you need... she will get my business and any other business I can find that needs anything similar.. I like the willingness to help attitude.. and the courteous manner.. she even produced the sample for me to test long before I paid a penny.. the oddest thing happened the first time I went to HKG... the first morning that I started to walking around... I felt so at home.. even more relaxed than when I walked in LA and I'd lived there at the time well over 25 yrs.. and I feel at home when I'm in Thailand... I thought it was some kind of de jave feeling but It stuck with me my whole time... and I had a really strange experience in Costa Rica.. I knew where a few things were and I'd never ever seen the place and I was coming down stairs going to my bedroom and the mountain ridge was so familiar it was spooky... .. aside for all that... thanks for bring this subject up and expounding on it... I'll be writing the cit again to bug the hell out of them till they reach out to the Asian countries and communities around the country... I think this would be idea location for many because of the climate as well as the many other elements ...and the need for a larger Asian population in the region.
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1/14/2008 3:10 pm |
Now you get it! So buy me lunch next time you in SF and we can express views over nice peiking duck with crispy skin. V  you promise not to throw darts at me  I like you, as you engage topics without getting bent out of shape and cutting it short.. I like smart - intelligent women, who speak what they think.. I value that more than the prettiness of faces ..
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1/14/2008 2:48 pm |
I write this on the shreveport times comments section just a matter of weeks ago. Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:52 pm Post subject: Look around and ask yourself what do you understand... are you paying attention to the political arena of this day and age.. Obama has a coalition of everyone.. the demographic mix that supports him is some of all people.. and the same for some other candidates.. now on some of the CNN coverage.. the candidate that came in lower in the ranking.. were the one's their coverage showedon Saturday they had a back one or two ethnicity people.. but if you note the crowd that gathered for Obama was mixed of all people .. and it has shown in the rating of the polls.. that people are willing to work together.. and the everyday black community may well need to let go of the reverse racist mindset that seem to be so dominanat in many black communities. there is too much talk in too many black communities of racial divide.. sure we can acknowledge things of each other race.. and maybe some is real and maybe some is just not fully understood.. on both sides.. we can see the failure of many of the white controlled business as the drive in the loss of industry and such, but we can also see the lack of blacks to blend their business with white to help them be more diverse may well be part of that as well.. we as people sit back and watched the merger mania hit this nation of big corporations.. but we as blacks and whites never thought to merge black and white business into something that can be more expanse for both.. the talents that are a part of each singularily can be strong and build and do more combined in many fields and categories.. and we have to find ways both black and white to make that happen... or we as a region and a nation will not be able to compete with any international organization.. We have to be willing to adopt what works and not deny it for the craziness of trying to be different in demeanor in the office.. business is business and needs to be business. black business in some areas don't spend enough on the business facility image.. they open fast good joints that make good products but they don't develop an image model.. they just put in some componenst of seating and such.. and then think they can franchise it.. but it does not have a image model that makes it attractive to be a franchise... Study what works.. Taco bell has a image, McDonalds has an image.. and etc.. and if you got something that works... then get with a designer and develop and image.. and then you can put together a business plan and the SBA can have something to see what is your vision and they can assist you in a way they are assured that you have a viable chance for success. Look at the average black fish place or Bar-B-que place.. they have no marketable image.. they have a building with a sign on it with a non discript set up that is not a model that can be replicated and be made commercially attractive as to be a model for mass reproduction.. I see places where they have attorney's with hand made signs on the grass. and Real estate places that have non professional sinage.. and many of the corner stores that you can't see inside for the paper ad's placed all over the windows and it from the streets look like a dungeon as dark as it is.. but then you look at what Circle K did , and what Valero .. they developed a model.. and it has an image that looks professional and can be duplicated as many times as they desire. this is what it takes... not some 1940 throw up a business and that's it.. Beauty salons.. there are hundreds of them some have that silly looking graffitti looking sign as if some gang bangers decided to make it for them out of spray cans of paint.. and they have developed nothing that resembles a color scheme. this is why black business can't get funding, they don't design and plan.. they don't lay it out to look like something someone would want to dump 50k into it to help them expand.. it looks like in many cases they may fold over in a month.. or pack up in the middle of t
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1/14/2008 2:27 pm |
thank you for opening my eyes to the black racism against Asian... I had no idea it was as it is in localities, because the people I deal with don't think that way..about Asian people.. I hope never to encounter such people ..who hold that level of ignorance.. I[d say some of the people who have attitudes at Asians. maybe they should go and see some of the areas where I've seen where Asian struggle very hard.. and many of the small business people work 12-14 hours a day.. I had one cambodian family that lived across from me in LA, and the man worked two jobs and he was hardly home becase he worked so much, he also told me stories of his hardship when he moved to this country.. how he was paid less and given crazy task.. in Texas at battery plant he worked at. one family who told me that during the riots after rodney king that blacks stood in front of his place to protect it from other's who were burning and destroying business.. my experiences have been far different than some of the people who carry such attitudes.. when I first moved to LA, the asian family that owned a store in the neighborhood, I dated their daughter up to shortly before I went into the military..the Asian people who worked with me, invited me to all their parties and events and would get upset with me any time I did not make it..My last neighborhood in Lakewood, had Cambodian, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, White and Latin people and we have a very nice neighborhood and everyone kept everything nice and were social with each other.. If the Job had not outsourced I'd probably still be there becase it was more to my liking, I don't go to all black anything, and I don't like all black anything... I like mixed events.. with some of all people feel welcome.. I aided more filipino and Latin people to advancments and my friend bases was comprised of some of everyone... men and women of all cultures... I really feel bad to know that Asian people are having such a challenging time in such ways.. I will read more US Asian news journals and learn more about this..
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1/14/2008 1:30 pm |
Now you get it! So buy me lunch next time you in SF and we can express views over nice peiking duck with crispy skin. V
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1/14/2008 1:18 pm |
I can cite you so many instance of black not making the best of their options.. and I discuss it with members of my family all the time.. and I don't discuss it as if it blames anyone but black people. since I moved here in the south, I've tried to talk to many black people about business but they are many complacant to just work a job, and some think they will be the next sensation and stuff of such... but one thing I have noticed is more and more black women are continuing to get education and more of the young black males are doing everything but getting an education.. and my point to my nieces and nephews.. is .. when they see whties and latin and asian progressing , don't get an attitude, becase they come home and study and their parents see to it they pay attention... i see far too many young blacks that are too into things that won't promote them .. and even when it comes to computers.. I've asked the church why don't they set up something to teach some of the kids to use a computer for something more than games.. but for blacks to resent Asian because they try harder is crazy but .. I can see that it happens more than just a little.. the value system is off balance in many of the lower economic regions of blacks... where there can be latin Asian and others in that lower region but they push their kids to learn, where far too many blacks allow their kids to waffle and skim the surface.. sunday,, I saw some young black kids in a store and other areas I drove to look at some property things the councilwoman had set up.. and it was sad to see them, living like that in what is america, houses with boarded windows, and unkept lawns and cars stacked upon cars... and I told my friend, I said.. if this area is ever taken over with populating shifts of Asian or Mexican, the blacks will sit back and have an attitude, but the Asian or mexicans will come in fix up the area and make it show value... where the black people are spinning in the squalor and complaining about stuff and don't pay attention to the money that comes thur their hands to make thengs better for themselves.. and that is a sad problem that is more a black created problem for blacks themselves. The University campus in the city has low cost education, and the tech schools.. but during my last classes they were mostly filled by white and Asian and latin, and the Real Estate class was the same.. and I even have tried to get people to go to some of this stuff at the reduced rate this state offers.. but they have everything more important than this... I find I've been in situation where people give me the cold shoulder becase I continue to try to learn and becase of the few possession I have ..they think I try to be better than them or put them down.. when I try more to share thoughts to life themselves up. I've been working on a business for the past 6 months, I've gone to no less than 10 different black people and none care to invest any energy or time into it.. and I have told some of them point blank.. when I get it function, it will not be a black business it will be a business that embraces everyone.. and there is no need for them to run up then talking about they want to be now a part .. after I do all the foot and ground work.. so even thought th 300 years of what was may reverbrate.. people have to know when to look up, let go and move on... they may not have previous skills or families that pushed for them to progress but when they are adults they have to see it for themselves as a motivation to do more and do better... not go resenting others for their success. now I mentioned about some of the immigrants that took advantage of the system and played it, but in no way do I not acknowledge the many blacks that abuse the system.. and squander the benefits afforded them.. I use to see people selling foods stamps and then drinking up the money and drugging it up .. and buying flashy loud colored stuff.. and wonder what the hell is wrong with them.. but I also realize I can't save them... they have to wak up.. I mentioned about school disparity in upkeep.. but it's up to those parents to go and get this addressed before the school board.. I addressed some issue to the council about certain school grounds in the city.. and I noticed some of the items I addressed they fixed... so I know if the people think about what they can do , rather than what they feel someone is taking from them .. they can do more .. becase they just have to prepare themselves... you can't go to the welfare office looking for help with a gucci bag and designer clothes on and caddilac parked in the lot.. and then bitch when you don't get it.. so .. what you think of all blacks not liking asian and thinking in racist terms about Asian.. I'm not a member of that group and don't care to be assocciated with that group... so to tell me something about patronizing asian.. that's far from anything that I'd care to engage... I've seen the hardship of Asian people in their own lands and may not be as familiar with the racism they get in current day from blacks.. but I don't support blacks being racist against asian.. i see blacks that are biased toward other blacks who try to do and have something.. and this I see more of than anyone can imagine.. so that is why I avoid certain areas and I don't assocciate nor assimilate with people who have that kind of mindset.
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1/14/2008 12:45 pm |
“Black Racism” by Ying Ma In what passes for discussions on race these days, small problems are often blown up large, while real traumas are completely ignored. For instance, despite what President Clinton’s "Race Initiative" panel has said, the very rawest racial conflicts in present-day America don’t even fit into the tidy mold of white-majority-oppressing-colored-minority that activists constantly promote. Though civil rights groups and most of the media studiously ignore this fact, the nation’s most fractious racial battles are now conflicts between minority populations. Particularly horrific is the animosity directed at Asian Americans by blacks in low-income areas of urban America . At age ten, I immigrated from China to Oakland , California , a city filled with crime, poverty, and racial tension. In elementary school, I didn’t wear name-brand clothing or speak English. My name soon became "Ching Chong," "Chinagirl," and "Chow Mein." Other children laughed at my language, my culture, my ethnicity, and my race. I said nothing. After a few years, I began to speak English, but not well enough to trade racial insults. On rides home from school I avoided the back of the bus so as not to be beaten up. But even when I sat in the front, fire crackers, paper balls, small rocks, and profanity were thrown at me and the other "stupid Chinamen." The label "Chinamen" was dished out indiscriminately to Vietnamese, Koreans, and other Asians. When I looked around, I saw that the other "Chinamen" tuned out the insults by eagerly discussing movies, friends, and school. During my secondary school years, racism, and then the combination of outrage and bitterness that it fosters, accompanied me home on the bus every day. My English was by now more fluent than that of those who insulted me, but most of the time I still said nothing to avoid being beaten up. In addition to everything else thrown at me, a few times a week I was the target of sexual remarks vulgar enough to make Howard Stern blush. When I did respond to the insults, I immediately faced physical threats or attacks, along with the embarrassing fact that the other "Chinamen" around me simply continued their quiet personal conversations without intervening. The reality was that those who cursed my race and ethnicity were far bigger in size than most of the Asian children who sat silently. The racial harassment wasn’t limited to bus rides. It surfaced in my high school cafeteria, where a middle-aged Chinese vendor who spoke broken English was told by rowdy students each day at lunch time to "Hurry up, you dumb Ching!" On the sidewalks, black teenagers and adults would creep up behind 80-year-old Asians and frighten them with sing-song nonsense: "Yee-ya, Ching-chong, ah-ee, un-yahhh!" At markets and in the streets of poor black neighborhoods, Asians would be told, "Why the hell don’t you just go back to where you came from!" When it came time for college, I left this ugly world for a beautiful school far away. Finally, it was possible to pursue a life without racial harassment backed by the threat of violence. I chose not to return to my old neighborhood after college, but I am often reminded of the racial discrimination I endured there. On a bus not too long ago I saw a black woman curse at a Korean man, "You f---ing Chinese person! Didn’t you hear that I asked you to move yo’ ass? You too stupid to understand English or something?" In poor neighborhoods across this country Asians endure daily racial hatred just as I did. Because of their language deficiencies, their small size, their fear of violent confrontations, they endure in silence. Unlike me, many of them will never depart for a new life in a beautiful place far, far away. So each day they grow more bitter against a group that much of America refuses to acknowledge to be capable of racism: African Americans. In a fair and peaceful world, racial harassment will be decried without regard to its source. The problem today is that prominent black leaders rule out even the possibility of black racism. Activists like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson intone that racism equals "prejudice plus power," and that since blacks in America lack power, they are simply not capable of practicing racism against anyone. John Hope Franklin, chair of President Clinton’s race panel, angrily insists that racism is something suffered, not dished out, by blacks. Many black professors, writers, polemicists, and politicians repeat the same mantra. What might appear to be black racism, writes syndicated columnist Leonard Pitts, actually boils down not to racism but to acts of crime and rudeness from the perpetrators, and tough luck for the recipients. Rationalizers of black racism ignore the fact that identical actions inflicted by whites would be universally decried as intolerable. Ultimately, their arguments simply grease the skids for further traumatizing of "unlucky" victims. And to real-life casualties of racial animosity, motivation is not especially relevant. Loss is loss. Pain is pain. Unfortunately, Asian Americans–and especially their leaders–have failed to speak out on this matter. Complaints from wounded individuals regularly boil into public view, however. In mid-August, I attended a crowded press conference held in New York ’s Chinatown to discuss Indonesia ’s history of discrimination against ethnic Chinese (which peaked this May in a wave of bloody anti-Chinese riots). One woman at the event began to hysterically scream out her frustrations over black American racism against Asians. The woman, Mee Ying Lin, shouted, "Chinese suffer from racial discrimination by blacks every day. We should help persecuted Chinese overseas, but why is no one dealing with our own troubles in America ?" Rose Tsai, head of the San Francisco Neighbors Association, and candidate for a seat on the city’s Board of Supervisors, suggests that everyday Asians rarely defend themselves against ghetto racism because "Asian culture is just not that confrontational…. Asians are unlike blacks who got to where they are in politics by being militant." Tsai explains that Asian involvement in politics is at a nascent stage, that it is difficult for her organization even to convince Asian immigrants to vote, let alone make a political stink against racial harassment. "Asians are just not used to standing up for our own rights," says another Bay Area Chinese activist with frustration. That might explain the quiescence of recent immigrants who speak imperfect English. But what about the growing cadre of Asian activists? They are far from passive or non-confrontational. In just the past two years, organizations like the Asian American Legal Defense Fund, the National Asian-Pacific American Legal Consortium, the Organization for Chinese Americans, and others have voiced loud condemnations of "racism" in American society. But they have focused on events like the recent investigation of Asian donors of illegal campaign funds, the Republican opposition in Congress to Bill Lann Lee’s nomination as director of the Office of Civil Rights, a cover drawing for National Review that showed the President, Vice President, and First Lady dressed in Manchurian garb, and even a recent cover photo for this magazine that showed a handsome Asian male scowling angrily at the camera. If vocal Asian activists are able to work themselves into a frenzy attacking everyday political tussles and editorial cartoons for their alleged racist motivations, they are obviously capable of confrontation. Why then do we never hear these national activists condemning black racism against Asians in our inner cities? Some Asian-American activists say the reason they have not confronted anti-Asian racism among blacks is because the tension does not exist on the national level, but is merely confined to some local areas. Karen Narasaki of the National Asian-Pacific American Legal Consortium claimed in a recent interview that black animosity is different in each city and ought to be handled differently in each case by local organizations. David Lee, executive director of one such local organization, the San Francisco Voters Education Committee, concurs: "There may be a few communities and a few areas where tensions exist–so it is better for community groups rather than a national organization like the Organization of Chinese Americans to deal with such problems." Representatives of national Asian organizations also cite resource constraints to explain their quiescence. They say black-Asian clashes are not a serious enough national issue to expend scarce time and money on. There is a difference, however, between not being able to expend effort and not wanting to. Asian activists on the national level also matter-of-factly justify black racism in inner cities as a direct result of competition between Asians and their black neighbors over limited economic resources. Narasaki, while acknowledging she is not an inner city expert, insists that many black and Asian conflicts "have to do with the lack of economic opportunities" in cities. Echoing this refrain, Stanley Mark, program director of the Asian American Legal Defense Fund, asserts that "we can’t talk about race without talking about economic disparities." In this vein, Asian activists consistently mention that racial problems occur when Asian merchants move into predominantly black neighborhoods and flourish. The vicious year-long black boycott of a Korean store in Brooklyn in 1990, and the looting and burning of Korean stores in south-central Los Angeles during the 1992 Rodney King riots serve as shining examples of conflicts linked to economic disparities. The excuse of economic disparities fails miserably to justify violence and harassment, however. For some observers, it also brings up memories of Nazi persecution of Jews, African attacks on Indian merchants, and recent murders, , and robberies of ethnic Chinese in Indonesia . All of these atrocities were committed against people deemed economically well off by larger masses facing difficult times. In any case, the economic disparities rationale falls apart in the many instances where racism flourishes in the absence of class differences. At San Francisco ’s Hunter’s Point public housing complex, for instance, low-income Southeast Asian residents, who are in the minority, have consistently encountered racial harassment from their black neighbors. Racial slurs, physical threats, violence, and destruction of property have festered for years. Philip Nguyen of the Southeast Asian Community Center, who has worked on the case for years, notes that there are no economic differences between the Asian and black families in the complex. The Asians, he says, are very quiet and have made every effort to befriend the black residents, yet serious friction has persisted for ten years. Joe Hicks, executive director of the Los Angeles City Human Relations Commission, painstakingly tried to bring blacks and Asians together after the Rodney King riots. He believes that "much of the hostilities are due to blacks’ jealousy of Asian economic success, a sense of alienation, and the self-perpetuating belief that blacks will always lose out in the racial equation in America ." He adds that "certainly economics gives a basis to many of the problems," but asserts that "even if tomorrow we can have a level playing field for both racial groups, we would still have animosity and racial strife" because prejudices would still remain. Asian activists who are not otherwise inclined to ignore prejudice are often strangely anxious to apologize for black racism. In interviews, they note that Asians harbor many prejudices against blacks too. This explanation, however, has no power to explain the kind of harassment I and many others like me experienced as young immigrant children beginning life with no animus toward anyone. Asian prejudice toward blacks surely exists. But whatever biases might be harbored in the minds of Asian immigrants, many of whom had never seen a black person before arriving in the U.S., they certainly don’t rate at the level of destroying black people’s property, scaring their elderly folk, or threatening and assaulting their children–the kinds of pressures Asians in many urban areas now endure routinely. Asian youths in particular typically start out with little or no inclination to distrust or dislike African Americans. Young Asians are usually far more willing than their parents to accept a new country and new friends, including black ones. In many cases, it was only after innumerable frightening chases, assaults, and humiliations that Asian attitudes toward blacks turned defensive. Those of us whose open minds were confronted with hostility and hatred will never accept the insulting assertion that our suffering resulted from our own prejudices. It seems that leaders of the Organization of Chinese Americans, the Asian American Legal Defense Fund, and related groups are disconnected from the real concerns of many of the Asians they claim to represent. David Lee, whose Bay Area organization is attempting to promote local dialogue among minority journalists, believes that a fundamental disconnection exists between the national Asian spokesmen and the new majority of Asians who are recent immigrants. The prominent Asian civil rights leaders, he notes, tend to be American born, to speak little of their ethnic languages, and to be unable to read the local ethnic newspapers. Many of them do not know or understand the problems in low income areas, because they live comfortable middle-class lives. And so "it is not surprising that they are silent about black-on-Asian discrimination," Lee summarizes. Bong Hwan Kim, executive director of the Korean Youth and Community Center in Los Angeles and an active member of the Black-Korean Alliance that attempted to bring African- and Korean-Americans together in the eight years before the south-central riots, describes a disconnection in the Korean community between first-generation immigrants and acculturated second generation residents with less familiarity with inner-city life. After the shops of Koreatown were looted or burned, he reports, the more suburbanized Koreans pushed inter-ethnic bridge-building efforts, while the first-generation immigrants who toiled in menial jobs, bridled at having to sit across the table from those who looted and burned their property. Meanwhile, few of the prominent national Asian organizations even condemned the violence perpetrated against Koreans in L.A. Stanley Mark of the Asian American Legal Defense Fund argues in defense of the national Asian organizations that people hear less from the Asian leaders about black-on-Asian racism than white-on-Asian racism simply because there is less of the former than the latter. Mark insists he knows of no case where an Asian was seriously hurt or killed by a racist black American. Underlining the disconnect between national and local perceptions, Liu Yu-xi, an organizer of the New York coalition of Chinese Americans that mobilized hundreds of thousands of normally politically apathetic Chinese to protest Indonesian violence against Chinese residents, chuckled at Stanley Mark’s ignorance of cases of black racism. Liu, who has known of many racially motivated physical attacks against Chinese in New York , observes, "Such crimes are reported often in the local Chinese papers, but the national Asian activists obviously do not know how to read Chinese." When asked why prominent Asians have said little about racial harassment by African Americans, Bill Tam of San Francisco ’s Chinese Family Alliance flatly stated, "I think they are afraid to say anything." To him, it appears that Asian leaders are often fearful of the national black leadership. National Asian organizations generally follow the lead of black civil rights groups like the naacp so slavishly, another Bay Area activist told me, that even when the latter’s stances (for instance, on quotas and preferences) are opposed to the interests and beliefs of many Asian citizens, the Asian activists don’t challenge their allies. Rose Tsai of the San Francisco Neighbors Association was a little more blunt: "Most Asian leaders do not wish to acknowledge that there exists a problem because they do not want the minorities to fight amongst themselves." As a result, national Asian spokesmen speaking for their brethren are without any inkling of the real problems they face, or what kind of racism is dragging them down. Recognizing the complex issues between blacks and Asians, Philip Nguyen of the Southeast Asian Community Center has a simple proposal: "Fight, not against or for any group, but against racial discrimination." Ying Ma, who immigrated to the United States in 1985, is a research associate at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York . I don't happen to live in an area where blacks are racist against Asian , and have never lived in such a community... therefore I can't tell you what does not exist in some of these areas.. but what I will say .. is that blacks are not exempt from being racist... and it is a matter that does require more attention, more effort and more study.... I thank you for taking your stand in expression to point this area of research out and I will research it further.. I personally don't deal with people black or other who have racist motivations that drive them against others.. most of the Asian that I've met do not discuss black on Asian Racism they talk about the challenge they have within the white environments.. I know all too well what the oppressiveness of racism is, I grew up in the Jim Crow south, with segergated everything.. .. and I have no interest to be nor act racist toward any people.. I challenged it then when I was young and did not know the depth of it and today I will still challenge it when and where I see it.. I do feel bad for you if you have been the victim of racist attitudes by any people and surely by blacks but I can't apologize for the blacks that I have no contact and knowledge with other than to say they need to wake up and see life .... and know .. no one owes anything to anyone... this life we live... everyone struggles.. I see more poor white in some areas than I see poor blacks, and I see areas that have blacks that live like it was 1940.. and such things are a sad reality when ever I see it and where ever I see it.
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1/14/2008 12:07 pm |
And hey, just cause I am youngster is not meaning I not knowing much cuase believe me I knowing more abouts this then you do from University study and experience of my Family at hands of Black discrimination when we first coming to America and even now when we running our business and peoples like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton claim that we owe the Black community for our own success and they demanding we give them money to atone for our success at the self-inflicted misery of the Blacks from their own lack of success. to this I can only tell you this.. if you are getting pressure from any organization saying you owe them money for any group or ethnicity.. then you should fight it and if necessary file a civil complaint for the abuse and harassing motivation they invoke upon you.. now that's legal reality.. if anything what blacks don't like is to be continually compared to asian .. becase the experiences and challenges were different in the detail of it.. in generally both groups have had their challenges and still have them.. but blacks or any other group don't like to be told.. see Asian made it why can't blacks.. the variables are different as I pointed out and you so wrongly mistook to claim it prejudice.. rather than look at the fact of point it specified.. and in none of it did it say Asian owe blacks anything.. and if of anything that it may have concern to display is.. to be less prejudice and not adopt a stand of being prejudice.. I'm not here to make you like black people that's something you have to find your own reason and understanding to do... and if you never do that's really a matter that involves you on a personal level.. becase the relationships between Asian and blacks will continue to prosper whether you choose to become a part of it or not.. as to you caring what happen to blacks in the past that's a personal choice, but it does not negate that I can be of consideration to what happen to the Asian people. and it's not patronizing it's realizing.. and that is a distinguishing point you fail to grasp.. in broad terms it would fit under the banner of compassionate understanding.. which is why I can be more unifying in my engagements with Asian than you can be with blacks.. so that is a matter that you have to deal with on a person level or choose not to deal with period... and remain with your segergated mindsets and variable degrees of contemptuous demeanor.. that's not the spectrum that I care to live within .. I see people and the diversity and race is just a matter of the variety that life presents for us to engage was people.. in any discussion of anything we do each and all of us pick and choose the facts that we discuss.. becase none can discuss all facts at any one times, and there are many angles that anything can be viewed and facts applied for the relevancy of the depicted surmise.. so the only right that is a matter is the right of individual to respect individual.. as individual... now that's a right... which is the challenge to all people. if and as such concepts is engaged then people may look into the over view of life and see more reason to join understanding than to seek reasons to support segregations.
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1/14/2008 11:50 am |
you missing my point cause you still defending your postion. My point is simple that Asians dont owe Black people one penny and is not responsible for their failure either caused by White discrimination or past racial injustice. none think asian owe black any money.. why you would assume such is out in space... I doubt that blacks have ever gone to an Asian group claiming they are owed money.. come on sweetie... keep it realistic. no body wants your money. what may be possible is that maybe you may need to meet many Asian outside of your protected enviornment and you may see more and maybe even come to know more.. and you'd be less inclined to make such a comment.
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1/14/2008 11:47 am |
You make racist statment that Asians get extras from U.S. Government but 2003 study showing Govt invest in Asian community getting higher return on dollar in way of tax revenue and job creation then from Black community and that is fact. But it also showing maybe some defaults in SBA program so you quoting that but you not quoting fact that Black leadership funnel lots of money to Blacks and also is backing Democrat party cause they give lots handouts to Blacks community so they not have to working for that. You is one blind man who thinking he know everything but you is wrong cause you is ignoring the reality of Black hatred for Asian peoples. You come to the Asia Friendfinder and you patronize Asians cause you thinking that doing that make you better then other Blacks but you still have that attitude that Asians owe you and you not liking the reality when someone expose the hard fact that Blacks not like Asians at all in America and you only defending Blacks but you not defending Asians from Black hatred. What else you gonna say? I think is nothing but B.S. to me when you open your mouth. as to the concept of the Asian and the economic things about the grants and loans.. it's a fact.. be it greater or smaller was not the point of the discussion, it is a statement of point that exist... measure it how it suits you.. for your clarity, nothing I stated said all Asian, and if you assumed such .. then you assumed wrongly.. you may need to know more about the deomcratic party and how blacks came to embrace the democratic party... but many blacks know that the democratic parts has many elements that provide more hinderence than help in various ways... the early elements of such.. was to provide the program to dis-advantaged people.. and over time it becase a mechanism of keeping people down by giving them substandard benefits that they could not elevate themselves up from.. if one is getting welfare, they can't equally earn to elevate themselves without having their benefits cut, and thus they are caught within a cycle of dependency.. that robs the esteem in ways that are parts of major studies that have been conducted over the decades. while you lumped Cosby into a wrong category.. he has long ago pointed this out to blacks that the cycle of dependency creates it's own dependency that further erodes the progress of people.. you can find all you seek to claim blacks are prejudice against asian if that's the angle of pursuit that you seek , to justify your own prejudices.. but it does not make it true.. as your attempt to claim I come here to patronize Asian, that's a wild assumption that is more self serving on your part.. becase from your expressions it would tickle your heart pink, if you could manage to create where no blacks and asian ever mated.. but unfortunate for you.. you don't have that power nor the position to push that agenda.. the contempt that you speak about of Asian.. was created during the oppression of people of the pre civil right acts.. when the competition for the employment that was relegated to minorities, which was a way to keep them from uniting.. as the whole premise of what was the mindset of how to keep the institutions of enslavement and it's many levels alive.. was to keep people divided and distrusting each other... and you seem to cling to that with a dire motivation to keep such madness as a realism not just in your life but to try and spread it. I knew if we wrote long enough truths would come to surface.. and as such it always exposes what pretense may seem to try and cover.. but .. one the whole as an average.. its far different than you think.. when I was on my last trip in Thailand.. what I found is that the Thai seemed to embrace blacks with a far different mindset than you present and likewise so the blacks that lived there... if anything they were less trusting of whites.. and that's their doing.. not mine. but back to the Democratic party.. you may care to learn more about it, it's history, it's make up and it's drive before you state such a declarative statement about what it is and why blacks support it. 
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1/14/2008 11:33 am |
Mr. Touch, you seem to be part of the “you owe me for the sins of others” collective. You seem to demand a special kind of respect from Asians. If they disagree with your position, you claim they are racist against African Americans. What about the lack of respect given to Asians by the Black community? you make such a summary that has absolutely nothing of truthful nature in your depiction... but if you feel better to state this then you are most welcome to your view.. but you have clearly outlined your bias and given summary to your claimed reasoning for you prejudicial attitudes towards blacsk.. so it's probably evidents that there's no mistaking your disdain for blacks. but you are an individual... and you may remain in a collective that feels what ever you can gather to support your racial prejudices... but .. fortunate there are many asian who do not support your position nor your attitude. I probably have known and still know more Asian people than you may ever imagine to even know blacks.. and the Asian people I know are good people who don't push the divide mentality, or any of such.. it's why I have such good relations when I travel to Asian locations, becase of my respect for the people as people.. and individuals. I'm sure you may not be able to state the same of your knowledge or associations with blacks to any degree of depth in and of associations. which may be to your greater loss of the enriching value that is found in inter-racial and cross cultural mix... therefore it's not likely that you'd have understood the context of what I had posed in commentary to your expos'e into the subject that you so gleefully engaged... may I ask you ... how many other races where burned, tared and feather, and whipped and forced into servitude at no compensation for 100's of years.. until you grasp the reverberating effect of that .. it may be of choice in wisdom to investigate.. but likewise so, the blacks still fought side by side with the oppressor and the former oppressor while at the same time still fighting for civil liberties and rights not just for himself but for all people. be it in this land or the lands of others.. the fight for the freedoms of people is still within the hearts of many many blacks across this lands and other lands... economic does not make one better nor is it the measure of the integrity of the individual compassion. And I stating simple fact easy to finding in modern age of the computer internet Black peoples still discriminate against Asians and that is all I saying. Fact is this, I not care about what happen before to Black peoples. Not my fault and is not Asian peoples fault. But I caring what happen to Asian peoples today cause lots of Blacks hate Asians in America cause we not feel sorry to them. Asians have own problems in America almost same as Blacks have from Whites but we have double problem cause Blacks hate us too. So you go ahead and defends Blacks any way you wanting. I can go ahead and defend Asians from Black prejudice. And hey, just cause I am youngster is not meaning I not knowing much cuase believe me I knowing more abouts this then you do from University study and experience of my Family at hands of Black discrimination when we first coming to America and even now when we running our business and peoples like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton claim that we owe the Black community for our own success and they demanding we give them money to atone for our success at the self-inflicted misery of the Blacks from their own lack of success. You understaning me now? Just only you and me shouting in this blog now. And you gonna lose cause lots of peoples gonna see you not understating problem you only looking at your side and pick and choosing your facts.
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1/14/2008 11:01 am |
Mr. Touch, you seem to be part of the “you owe me for the sins of others” collective. You seem to demand a special kind of respect from Asians. If they disagree with your position, you claim they are racist against African Americans. What about the lack of respect given to Asians by the Black community? you make such a summary that has absolutely nothing of truthful nature in your depiction... but if you feel better to state this then you are most welcome to your view.. but you have clearly outlined your bias and given summary to your claimed reasoning for you prejudicial attitudes towards blacsk.. so it's probably evidents that there's no mistaking your disdain for blacks. but you are an individual... and you may remain in a collective that feels what ever you can gather to support your racial prejudices... but .. fortunate there are many asian who do not support your position nor your attitude. I probably have known and still know more Asian people than you may ever imagine to even know blacks.. and the Asian people I know are good people who don't push the divide mentality, or any of such.. it's why I have such good relations when I travel to Asian locations, becase of my respect for the people as people.. and individuals. I'm sure you may not be able to state the same of your knowledge or associations with blacks to any degree of depth in and of associations. which may be to your greater loss of the enriching value that is found in inter-racial and cross cultural mix... therefore it's not likely that you'd have understood the context of what I had posed in commentary to your expos'e into the subject that you so gleefully engaged... may I ask you ... how many other races where burned, tared and feather, and whipped and forced into servitude at no compensation for 100's of years.. until you grasp the reverberating effect of that .. it may be of choice in wisdom to investigate.. but likewise so, the blacks still fought side by side with the oppressor and the former oppressor while at the same time still fighting for civil liberties and rights not just for himself but for all people. be it in this land or the lands of others.. the fight for the freedoms of people is still within the hearts of many many blacks across this lands and other lands... economic does not make one better nor is it the measure of the integrity of the individual compassion.
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1/14/2008 10:51 am |
It is most interesting that touch213, the resident “Black expert here in Asia FriendFinder almost everything else dares to claim that somehow Asians in America OWE almost everything they have to Blacks and that Asians have contributed to the social and economic plight of the larger Black community as demonstrated in his remarks in Change. this is absurd... my point is .. blacks don't need any additional prejudices tossed up on them.. how you missed that.. amazes me. You is one blind man who thinking he know everything but you is wrong cause you is ignoring the reality of Black hatred for Asian peoples. You come to the Asia Friendfinder and you patronize Asians cause you thinking that doing that make you better then other Blacks but you still have that attitude that Asians owe you and you not liking the reality when someone expose the hard fact that Blacks not like Asians at all in America and you only defending Blacks but you not defending Asians from Black hatred. What else you gonna say? I think is nothing but B.S. to me when you open your mouth.
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1/14/2008 10:46 am |
It is most interesting that touch213, the resident “Black expert here in Asia FriendFinder almost everything else dares to claim that somehow Asians in America OWE almost everything they have to Blacks and that Asians have contributed to the social and economic plight of the larger Black community as demonstrated in his remarks in Change. this is absurd... my point is .. blacks don't need any additional prejudices tossed up on them.. how you missed that.. amazes me.
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1/14/2008 9:59 am |
It is most interesting that touch213, the resident “Black expert here in Asia FriendFinder almost everything else dares to claim that somehow Asians in America OWE almost everything they have to Blacks and that Asians have contributed to the social and economic plight of the larger Black community as demonstrated in his remarks in Change. this is absurd... my point is .. blacks don't need any additional prejudices tossed up on them.. how you missed that.. amazes me.
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