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victorylee0516
(victoria lee)
41F
3081 posts
8/26/2008 12:53 am
Moving to Nevada


My sister has made the decision to move our business operations to Nevada. We will be closing down our business in the San Francisco Bay area. It has to do with taxes and all sorts of social mandates that society wants us to fund that we just cannot afford to pay and still stay in business here in California.

I am not sure if politicians really understand how businesses operate but we are not a cash cow to tap into when there is not enough money in the State treasury to pay for all the programs and projects and promises they made to get themselves elected.

The one thing I don't understand is why these politicians can't live within the revenue stream they collect via existing taxes, fees, and other forms of squeezing more and more money out of the common worker.

It really does not matter how much they tax us since we pass all of the taxes on to our . In the end, the consumer pays for all of the social programs the politicians enact regardless of the state of the budget.

But then again they say they are out there to protect the common man/woman/family, but are they really doing that? Sure, we pass on all taxes to the consumer. However, what about these additional taxes they want to impose on us. If we do not have money to expand, to create new products, and thus increase our sales, where are we going to find the money to hire new workers? Instead, we are going to have to lay off almost 100 workers in the next few weeks.

That is the sad part. Many have been with us over ten years since my father started this business. They do not have transferable skills or the ability to really converse in English to compete with the local labor force. What will happen to them? How long can they draw unemployment and still make their payments on their homes? College expenses for their ? Medical expenses?

We asked some of the women who have been with us the longest to set up their own business so that we can still use her services to do custom fittings.

The Democrats keep talking about taxing the rich and redistributing it to the poor. John McCain says he wants everyone to become rich. Do you have a solution to Government’s need to continue taxing us more and more to fund services not called for specifically in the U.S. Constitution.

VICKY
On the way to Shanghai for a little shopping.

cuddleboy69
(cuddle )
57M

9/2/2008 9:56 am

    Quoting victorylee0516:
    Rich? I do not think so. After taking care of our employees, paying taxes and other related business expenses, we cleared less then $50,000 apiece for the family members and other shareholders. Some of our employees made more then us. The ones who made the most were the County of San Mateo, the City of South San Francisco, the State of California, and the Federal Government.

    The problem with a lot of people like you is that you do not have the ambition to try to become rich or even the courage to put what little money you have you start a business, any kind of business without having to depend on a boss to provide you with a job to pay for your miserable existence.

    Think about it, many of the new rich today were probably ordinary working folk who took a chance to create a business and in turn created jobs for real people. Government does not create a business. It is true they give people jobs but those jobs do not really contribute to the creation of real jobs the pay real taxes that in turn create government jobs.

    As for a doctor making a million dollars year, how much is your miserable life worth? What if this doctor had to perform an operation to save it? Would you then complain if the government did not offer him enough compensation to make it worth his time to perform the needed operation? I doubt it.

    VICKY
    Feeding a cockroach
Perhaps you are not so rich, I just thought being able to go to the Olympics and your other travel is not something the average person can afford, but I don't really know your situation at all. In my experience, it's the well off that most often say they are being taxed too much.

It's true I don't have an ambition to become rich, but I also don't see that as a problem. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be rich, but I don't think it's the most noble of goals. I content myself with trying in my little way to make the world a better place . Perhaps that's the Buddhist in me. I think you said you are Catholic(?), maybe that framework of looking at the world is more competative. (OK I'm kind of joking here ... not trying to offend you ... I know it's probably the Chinese in you that makes you competative.)

Although I don't have statistics on this, I think most people who "get rich" are already from reasonably privaledged backgrounds.
I agree that a few ordinary working folk also do it, but it's probably not the norm.

One thing that is often not taken into consideration is the ways that the government used tax dollars to subsidize bussinesses and wealthy people. The government pays for infrastructure of many kinds that bussinesses need to operate. Also the government subsidizes university education, and the people who benefit most are the people with money. Most of the students at the best universities come from privaledged backgrounds. Even private schools get a lot of government funding through research grants (and something like 60% of that money goes right to the universities for "overheard" and never gets spent on research).

As for the doctor saving my life, I think firemen and policemen save more (miserable) lives than open heart surgeons, so why not pay them seven figures?


victorylee0516
(victoria lee)
41F

9/2/2008 4:12 am

    Quoting cuddleboy69:
    I understand that you feel frustrated that it's hard to run a bussiness and that higher taxes can make it harder.

    If I remember correctly your company is a clothing company. In the present environment, clothing production is simply more efficiently done in countries such as Thailand. If you want the US to be competative in clothing production, I think you would need one of:

    1) A good dose of protectionism (not going to happen ... probably ever, the world has been going on the opposite direction for a long time)

    2) Global labour regulations (not going to happen, the US is very much against anything like this for many reasons ... also you don't like it I guess)

    3) Something unexpected (at present I guess clothing manufacture cannot be done well by machines alone ... but who knows ... maybe
    some day?)

    As for the issue of taxation and bussiness in general ...
    Of all developed countries, the US has the biggest discrepency between rich and poor. So I don't feel sorry when rich people (such as yourself) complain that they are paying too many taxes. To me it feels like a doctor who takes home seven figures complaining that if he got taxed any more his patients would suffer.

    Cuddles

    (btw ... I'm flattered you call me dummy ... he's one of the nicest guys I know on here ... do you know him?)
Rich? I do not think so. After taking care of our employees, paying taxes and other related business expenses, we cleared less then $50,000 apiece for the family members and other shareholders. Some of our employees made more then us. The ones who made the most were the County of San Mateo, the City of South San Francisco, the State of California, and the Federal Government.

The problem with a lot of people like you is that you do not have the ambition to try to become rich or even the courage to put what little money you have you start a business, any kind of business without having to depend on a boss to provide you with a job to pay for your miserable existence.

Think about it, many of the new rich today were probably ordinary working folk who took a chance to create a business and in turn created jobs for real people. Government does not create a business. It is true they give people jobs but those jobs do not really contribute to the creation of real jobs the pay real taxes that in turn create government jobs.

As for a doctor making a million dollars year, how much is your miserable life worth? What if this doctor had to perform an operation to save it? Would you then complain if the government did not offer him enough compensation to make it worth his time to perform the needed operation? I doubt it.

VICKY
Feeding a cockroach


cuddleboy69
(cuddle )
57M

8/30/2008 2:49 pm

Sorry I didn't read all your comments. Your Nevada office will just have a few workers and doesn't produce any clothes. I guess that's great for employment in Nevada, but not so great for California.
I understand that even the labour costs in China are getting to high for making clothes. Is that true?

Cuddles


cuddleboy69
(cuddle )
57M

8/29/2008 8:39 am

    Quoting victorylee0516:
    When you consider that there is a line when the amount of taxes you pay along with the cost of doing business that it is no longer profitable for you to stay in business that you have to shut down your operations then will you feel sorry for the workers who no longer have a job and whom you will be responsible for paying for their unemployment and welfare benefits then will you understand that a company exists to make a profit for its shareholders and does not exist just so that it can be taxed out of existance will you feel sorry then for higher taxes on business?

    Duh, dummy.
I understand that you feel frustrated that it's hard to run a bussiness and that higher taxes can make it harder.

If I remember correctly your company is a clothing company. In the present environment, clothing production is simply more efficiently done in countries such as Thailand. If you want the US to be competative in clothing production, I think you would need one of:

1) A good dose of protectionism (not going to happen ... probably ever, the world has been going on the opposite direction for a long time)

2) Global labour regulations (not going to happen, the US is very much against anything like this for many reasons ... also you don't like it I guess)

3) Something unexpected (at present I guess clothing manufacture cannot be done well by machines alone ... but who knows ... maybe
some day?)

As for the issue of taxation and bussiness in general ...
Of all developed countries, the US has the biggest discrepency between rich and poor. So I don't feel sorry when rich people (such as yourself) complain that they are paying too many taxes. To me it feels like a doctor who takes home seven figures complaining that if he got taxed any more his patients would suffer.

Cuddles

(btw ... I'm flattered you call me dummy ... he's one of the nicest guys I know on here ... do you know him?)


touch213 69M

8/28/2008 10:11 am

creating business is never a small matter, lives are involved, and that encompasses the entire lives not on just the base owner but the family and the expanse of the family in matters, that impact business, as well as it's employees.

Every choice is a crucial undertaking, decision that are made, don't just affect the owner but it affects a community, and most business owners are more aware of that than sometimes the community of the affected individuals.

No one works for free, and surely no business is taking on the vast task that are to be done for free..

for some who think not deeply, just as a glimpse, I suggest to them, to do two simple things... go sit and write a business plan, and the go set up a program on say for example Peachtree Accounting... and when you finish with the headache of that, you will only still be dealing with a small fraction of what it takes to engage business as a legal entity..
now add in employees, then think of production scheduldes, client contact and management and the countless other incidentail, as well as the major issues, which are all business.. and then factor in that you have a family.. and what are family matter..

then one may get a glimpse of what are the multitudes of challenges, and then when all that's done.. then approach the aspect of regulations and mandated and the list of criteria that must be met on a State and Federal level, and equally so on a city level..

the forest begins to get very thick.. and not many will approach that forest, let alone enter it.. without hope to make a suitable return for the expanse of investments.

I'm not taking side, with anyone.. I'm talking about base reality..

I know .. because I'm facing it, and I'm only in the structure stages of what I'm doing, and it's bewildering, and extremely costly in time, emotions, dollars, and every other imaginable way...that it can be.. and there is no easy way..

That's why so many people choose to go work for others.

so before you criticize what may not be understood.. some may care to ask, why they work a job, rather than own a business.

and then truth may become their's ... if they respond honestly..


victorylee0516
(victoria lee)
41F

8/28/2008 12:15 am

    Quoting tennischen:
    You are writing so you can feel better about yourself. Fundamentally, I can't feel sorry for you; not any more than I feel sorry for your customers, employees etc. Everyday companies rise and die. Forces of nature. Survival of the fittest.
That is so true. But think of this. Have you ever tried to create a company so that others can earn money to survive? Or are you just a parasite depending on others to give you a job so you can continue your own pathetic little existance?

VICKY
just having fun with a little cockroach


victorylee0516
(victoria lee)
41F

8/27/2008 4:47 pm

    Quoting MidoriLuv:
    I'm sorry for the disappointments with business, but I do wish you and your family luck with moving the business!
Thank you. I feel sorry most for the familes who have been with us these past ten years who now need to find other employment. I think its the new workers we hired the past two years who have caused us the most problems.

We'll be ok, business wise, with the new distribution model so we'll still make a small profit.

VICKY


victorylee0516
(victoria lee)
41F

8/27/2008 4:45 pm

    Quoting cuddleboy69:
    It's hard for me to feel sorry for you that you pay too much tax.

    Cuddles
When you consider that there is a line when the amount of taxes you pay along with the cost of doing business that it is no longer profitable for you to stay in business that you have to shut down your operations then will you feel sorry for the workers who no longer have a job and whom you will be responsible for paying for their unemployment and welfare benefits then will you understand that a company exists to make a profit for its shareholders and does not exist just so that it can be taxed out of existance will you feel sorry then for higher taxes on business?

Duh, dummy.


cuddleboy69
(cuddle )
57M

8/27/2008 4:35 pm

It's hard for me to feel sorry for you that you pay too much tax.

Cuddles


MidoriLuv 48F
94 posts
8/27/2008 4:07 pm

I'm sorry for the disappointments with business, but I do wish you and your family luck with moving the business!

My Little World.....Enter if you dare!! Muwahahahaha! ^_^


touch213 69M

8/27/2008 2:51 pm

I would not want to own a business in California, New York nor Boston.. they are some of the highest cost areas, with their program and their push for various standards. California have the highest standards, Especially the Bay area, they want to be cutting edge on everything, and cost corporation a fortune..

Look at the Auto Industry, GM scaled back their California operations, Goodyear and Firestone left the State years ago, the Aero Space left the State, and now the Movie Industry, even in the city where I live they have now 4 Studio, and they are still proposed to build more, and the pursuit is to try and get the sound recording industry here as well, because the sate has more liberal program for corporations and they offer tax incentives.. GM has a Plant here, Toyota has a distribution center here. The business that did not survive here, are the one's who did not modernize.. and their analog methods is what cost them..

but you Father seem to have tried to set up a business that his employees could grow with it, and he could save them money on child care and other things.. and that's Admirable of him to have engaged the vision to want to do that.. but times have changed..

If the people are not happy with Profit sharing, then they can whether they know it or not be given a 401K, and it's then up to the business owner if they want to contribute of match funds, they can even give 25cent on the dollar.. and save themselves money, so the people may need to rethink their position on wanting a increase in their distribution, equally so... on the medical, the company can change providers, and raise their premium and push them to a different co pay structure.. by offering them only a 80/20 program or a lessor grade PPO... there are those options, and the child care thing, is a courtesy, and if they consider that many places don't offer anything remotely relative to that, and the only thing they get is tax deduction for child care credit on their Federal tax..

so maybe someone may need to have a meeting and let them know they have a program that is trying to consider them, but if they force a Union, then the options will be to convert the operation to a different format, an that format will only require 10-25% of the current employees..

See I wrote out such option to the Union during the contracting process of the department where I worked, and I spent the time to explain to the people. that if they stand on trying to get everything they will loose everything.. I even structured where no one was claiming double time, except for holiday, and a structure of certain holidays, where they could have the option to float it as a unpaid day..

so if they get the main 5 holidays the others, could be at either a straight time pay, with an option ability to float the day, as unpaid.. that way, they did not get over time, they got paid for the day, but they also go a extra day at no pay.. and most of them realized at some point and time, they'd need that extra day.. to go with vacation or something.. but by some means the conversation is going to be necessary... to avoid them pushing for a Union and forcing your hand.. Delta did it for years, they alway made negotiation with workers,.. to avoid them unionizing many departments.. No company is going to be dictated to by the employees when they are already cutting their profit margin, and still assuming liability to a higher degree.

As some jobs did with MLK.. they did not pay for the holiday, but if a person wanted to be off they could take the day off, but they did not get paid.. and the same can be applied to Chavez, that way .. you honor the Holiday, but you do so, where the cost is not yours becase it's not a declared paid Holiday, but just a Holiday that is Observed.. then you comply with observing it, and the employee has the option as to how they want to deal with it.. becase they have the comp time.. to take at will.. and that can even be broken up into half days... so they won't be written up if they need a half day off for some reason..

Look at such options.. if people are rational they will see how it benefits them better than pushing for the pay..
they can add two floating days to their vacation, or maybe add on to their weekend and have a 3 day weekend when they need it..

What Wal Mart does to cut down on distribution with profit sharing, is they plan capital expenditure, which means the people get less.. and Wal mart has a systematic process of doing it, it may not look the most ethical of manners, but at the same time it expands the Wal Mart brand.. to have additional locations.. and they see that as their option other than to give the money in larger sums through profit sharing, so the people have to see the picture, of what they can loose, or they can have it cut out and the 401K program set.

then you can structure you vacation calendar, and set what period that floating days can be used, such as slow periods.. there are countless way to deal with it.. so look at the variable options.. and you may find a workable solution, and then contrast that against the other variables that are being considered, and you may not have to disrupt a working model and make such drastic transitions.in operation.


touch213 69M

8/27/2008 2:15 pm

you have a good pay structure for your employees, and I commend your family for that and the other provision you provide.. you have been above board in employee consideration based on your summary of variables.. I'm sure many of them appreciate working, and for the considerations, they probably don't mind working 10 hrs, but the problems with growth, are many that push many business over the limits into higher cost, that are generally structured to deal with higher volume employees..

Now that problem is at the Federal Level, because they need to categorize based on specific to business and industry, but as with the Government, many things are generically set.. and it does cause business some problem.

As to the disability, we had employees who ran a continual cycle of such at the company I worked for, and they were part of the cause of contracting out the department. many companies deal with the rising cost by contracting out, various department, maybe contracting out wherehouse work, becase of the nature of people who claim injury, and maybe even keep a few head seamstress, and follow the idea that you stated, of having one long term employee to set up their own business, and contract work to them.. this would reduce the number of employee count for that person, which would relieve them of some of the cost to high volume employee structure.. and that would take you out of the higher base of what the corporate structure is and how it fits into the Federal guideline, maybe get a lower classification, as to business size..

another option is, as I sad .. Souther States, their pay rates are lower, here say for example, they don't even pay the Police 50k a year, I think they are between 30k-40K.. so that should give you some idea of what the pay rate is.. and for the standard of 12-16$ you can then have a staff.. that is less costly..

as to medical.. it's a mess no matter how you look at it, unless there could be a way multiple business of the same nature could collective join a program..and combine their numbers to negotiate for a lesser premium basis.

but what ever results, it's certainly going to be a mind taxing situation for you and your sisters.

Even if you have to become a silent partner in setting up the other person with their seamstress business, at least you can avoid the challenge for having XX number of employees which force other compliances..

Review all options.. before you make transitional choices, because there's alway the hidden cost that don't show up till later, with any move of operations.

Best of wishes in the outcome... I'm sure with multiple head together you and family will find the best solution.


victorylee0516
(victoria lee)
41F

8/27/2008 12:20 pm

Someone email me and asking if I really own the business. It really is my father's business but he is not recover too well yet so my elder sister is the one who is making all the decisions since my brother is back in the military for at least one year and maybe a little longer. My middle sister and I are helping where we can in the operations and often have to be doing the travel to visit the clients. So maybe is ok for me to say I am a business owner a little bit cause I understanding how difficult it is for my elder sister to make the decisions to keep the business going.

I think it is very difficult decision to make to close down the American side of the business and go to the drop ship to the client from the factory site and eliminate the distribution center in the USA but the world is changing and pretty soon I think if we can order directly from the factory then there is no need for stores so there should be a more affordable product, don't you think?

VICKY
No using the MS Word grammar checker so please excuse the grammar mistakes.


victorylee0516
(victoria lee)
41F

8/27/2008 10:08 am

Holidays -- Since most of our employees are Asian, the "optional holiday" is taken during Chinese New Year. They get two weeks of paid holiday leave plus a profit sharing bonus. This year because sales were low they only received 2% of base salary compared to 5-10% from past years. The new hires are demanding additional days off to celebrate Mexican Independence Day, etc. MLK sometimes falls within the Chinese New Year period and that is why it is an optional holiday. Caesar Chavez is not a mandatory holiday so that is why it is optional. They also are demanding a higher or fixed rate in the amount paid out in the profit sharing plan to match previous year’s payouts.

Average Pay -- $16.50 per hour. We tend to hire people recommended by our employees. Even then, entry-level workers start at $12.00 per hour. High-end supervisors/sales = $20-$30 per hour. We provide a profit sharing program based on what our total profits are at the end of the year. This is paid out during Chinese New Years. On average we have about three people from the same family working = $49.50 per hour per household (wife = seamstress/tailor/alterations, husband = warehouse/shipping, older son/daughter = orders tracking/phone support).

Health Care -- The worker gets a benefits package where they only have a $10 co pay for themselves and a $20 co pay for their dependents. Lifetime benefits are capped at $1 million individual and $2 million family. The worker pays 20% of the premium and for the family plan, they pay 35% of the premium. We pick up the balance. The premiums are going to double this year but instead of paying 20%, the new employees want to cap their premiums at the dollar cost they are currently paying with us picking up the balance.

Disability -- Mandated by the State and Federal governments. Within the last year, we have had about 15 individuals claiming disability benefits. These were mostly claimed by the new hires working in the warehouse. While the worker is out on disability we have to hire a replacement that we need to let go when the individual returns to work. It seems they always return to work the day after their benefits run out for not working.

Meals -- We used to provide a free lunch so the workers do not have to leave the premises and a free dinner when they need to work overtime. There is no requirement for us to do so. The new hires are now demanding a say in the menu selections or an equivalent meal allowance for them to eat elsewhere.

Childcare -- In the early days, many of the people used to bring their children to work and we provided space for an ad hoc childcare center by hiring one additional worker whose responsibility was to watch the children. We provided the same meals found in other day care facilities. Now we are told that if we want to continue this service we need to “upgrade” the center by doubling its size, hiring additional workers, and running them through a police check, paying for training to get them to be child care provider certified, etc. If we continue to provide this benefit then we will need to hire one childcare provider for every 10 children. That means a minimum of five providers plus a licensed childcare supervisor. That is a lot of money for something we provide for free to the worker.

Cost of Doing Business:

-- Transportation costs have increased in bringing product from China to the USA and then transshipping to clients in the USA, Canada, Europe, etc. When the company was set up before the internet, it was easier to have the product here for final inspection before sending off to the clients. In addition, we could do custom tailoring and fittings. Now, through the internet and the computer program that we use to fit custom fit the customer there is no economical reason to maintain a distribution center in California.

-- Taxes. We have seen an increase for taxes we have to pay based on our profit margins, social security and disability shares of our employees, local taxes, sales taxes, etc.

-- Gasoline. We no longer deliver directly to our clients, instead we UPS since it is cheaper to send a package then to send a driver.

-- Environmental. We used to do limited dry-cleaning on site but are now restricted as to how we clean returned product that might have been worn by clients before we send out to “second-chance” stores. There is also an increase in the cost of “green” operations that are being mandated that we meet even if we do not do the non-green stuff. In other words, we have to provide evidence and studies that we do not pollute or add to the global warming effect.

As you can see, once the company becomes larger then you expected certain things change. What was once provided gratis to the employees is now considered a mandated benefit. If we do not provide it then we have to provide it as a wage benefit for them to pay for the service themselves. If we provide meals then that is considered a wage benefit and those who choose not to eat and bring their own lunch should be given a cash allowance instead.

There are other things we used to do to take care of our workers. However, since we are required to provide an opportunity for all individuals to apply for work in the company we no longer have the luxury of screening our workers by hiring family members of employees. We often have to hire “off the street” and that is where many of our labor relationship problems are occurring.

In the end, we decided that it was easier to quit doing business in the USA instead of trying to fight all of the mandates and rules and regulations and additional taxes just to stay in business. In addition, since many of the new hires want to form a union and the old hires do not there is additional conflict in the work place.

Take a look at the automobile industry as an example. As the cost of production for a car went down there should have been fewer workers. However, the unions created rules that limited the amount of production, reduced hours, slowed down the production line, demanded higher benefits, a higher share of the profits. This produced a car that cost more then it should have because part of the cost was meeting unnecessary production costs. Then along came the imports and all of a sudden the American car industry in a shambles. Take a look at other industries and you will see the same results.

The bottom line is that companies are in business to make money for the shareholders. They pay a fair wage based on what the employee’s share towards the production of the product. The increase in costs to the business is in the social welfare programs the government mandates the companies provide to the workers via benefits package that extend to their immediate families.

I appreciate your comments but in the end, the business owner needs to make a profit, regardless of how much that profit is. A business cannot be used to supplement the programs that activists want in a social/welfare state.

So when I look at a candidate for President, as a business owner I want to know if that candidate has ever run a company or created a job for a worker and if not, then how can they understand what it takes to run a business and provide jobs for workers.


touch213 69M

8/27/2008 9:02 am

I am not sure if politicians really understand how businesses operate but we are not a cash cow to tap into when there is not enough money in the State treasury to pay for all the programs and projects and promises they made to get themselves elected.

I think this is the case in every state.. sadly.. but maybe this should wake up the politicians, to see they can't support program if they keep shipping jobs out of the country and eroding their own ability to generate revenue, when they continue to diminish the pool of business that such projections are based upon.. they even now cut school program and teachers... while education lags...

We can blame politicians and wall street for the mess that exist, they'd sell out their own mother for a pat on the back and to fatten their pockets at the expense of business and people.. But now the world is seeing, that the model set up for them to rip and strip, has come to the full circle to show their madness is the crux of the problem... let's see what they destroy next..

It's pathetic when the State itself, reduced the wages of State employees in Calif. to around $8 hr.. and that's far below the living standards, even for people to live in a project housing development..

that's only 64$ a day.. minus tax and other incidentals.. and even for a dump, that cost only 600$ a month, which probably is someones garage, that cost 20$ a day..and at near $4 gallon for fuel, and car and food and other stuff.. they people are probably 60 dollars in the hole, even after they put in a days work..

I left Calif, soon as they outsourced my work, no way was I going to stay there and do the same work for half the pay, and no benefits, and then be saddled with mortgage payments, that left nothing, for anything else.. on top of the cost of issues that were mounting like mad.. it's just not logical, only for the sake to say.. I live in California... it's an illusion of delusion, that is not what it's cranked up to be unless one earns far above and has a broad expendable income to match..

It's like a giant mouse trap.. with old cheese in the trap as a lure.. that if the trap don't kill you, the cheese will poison you.

stupid stuff, even for the LLC to exist it's $800 a year in Calif, where here in Louisiana, it's $60, and to file the annual report is only $25.

they charge for everything here, and then you got to pay to have it notarized, but at least it's not as high as it is in CA.

Even with China goods, the cost of shipping has gone up... that offsets the savings of having things made there.. so the % have changed in everything... and no place other than rich people, do people have money to buy as they did some years ago... so a lot of stock sits dead in the stores and whorehouses.... sucking up the cost and creating loss by just sitting there.

either way it goes it cost...to be where ever.

but I guess we can all say.. Hello... to the "Reality Check"... America is facing the results of it's actions.... and there's not much we can do about... other than keep stepping and keep doing,.. or choose default.


touch213 69M

8/27/2008 6:42 am

    Quoting victorylee0516:
    We are a fashion design house with a factory in China and clients in North America and Europe. We will change the business model from shipping the product to the USA for final quality control. Instead, we will do the final quality control at a different facility from the factory and then ship directly to our clients. All custom design will still be sent to the USA for final QC. Our new Nevada office will only consist of two full time staff members and maybe four part time workers.

    Our taxes in California are going up and the obligations to fund social programs are starting to cut into our profit margins. It's one thing to be compassionate towards our workers and meet their needs but when it becomes government/politician driven as to what we need to compensate our workers and what our profit margins are, then it's time to pack up and move on. It is a real shame too since we will be laying off over 70 workers in our North American operations.

    Now we are required to fund:

    Workmen's compensation

    Worker's medical/health plan
    --- Now forced to add their family to the plan with us making most of the monthly premium payments

    Childcare
    --- Some women with children are demanding we provide a free childcare center for their children.
    --- This often leads to a requirement to provide preschool for the children.

    Holidays and time off
    --- We used to give five paid holidays and two optional holidays. Now we have to pay for Martin Luther King and Cesar Chavez.
    --- We are a seasonal company with various peak periods. Now we cannot have ten hour work days without going over fifty hours in a week or working more then five days a week.

    Lots of stuff like that. In addition, some the more recent workers want to form a union. Ok, they can have their little union but it does not mean they are going to have a place to work.

    Easier sometimes to declare bankruptcy and start over somewhere else.
many companies, when their income and profit margin, rise above a certain level, have to improve their benefit package and their meeting of standard program..

You may find, that as a growth company, it's not logical for the US to push other countries to provide these things to their workers, to allow companies, who have 80% or better of their production done, offshore, and be a international distribution business housed in the US, to not meet these mandates.. of Health care package improvements, It does not do an employee much good to have coverage only for the employee, when the employee has a family, because any family member being sick is as devastating to the employee, as if they themselves are sick..

Federal Holidays, are just that Federal Holidays.. everyone has to respect them, as part of the Federal guidelines of the nations.. It should be an honor to support MLK and Cesar Chavez, when both fought for things, that make it easier for your family being too a minority, who benefited greatly for what they put up such a strong fight for, And if and as many of you employees, may well be Spanish heritage, it truly should be of high regard to support any leader who fought as he did to lift his people out of some of the same things, that your people were part of, which was benefited beyond maybe your own awareness of what MLK and Chavez did for you as well.

At first I thought your issue were about something of the things which California does about enviornment increase and things of such nature..

but what you are balking at is the due part that corporations are part of supporting in what makes America and American Model..

On the points you mention, I don't agree with your reasoning.. It should be enough to have your products produced in a foreign land, and then only brought here as a pass throught, which even in doing so, your company gains from it's claim as an American company, not as a Chinese company.. the disdain for supporting minority Holidays, is a shame, that your family being a minority family.. are not with regard for those who fought that you today have the options you have today..

Maybe having money makes you not see that, and that's called being an "elitist"... which means, once having money, then the nature of where you come from and how and what supported the avenue for you to get where you are.. is sorely neglected..

you claim you pass on the tax to the customer, then you have no justifiable reason to lay off 70 people, so your argument is weak, but implies that you see the greed of gain, more than the nature of being a growth business that meets the standard of the State.

you can't claim on one had that the taxes are passed thru, and then claim it is causing you challenges in the pocket book, yet, you promote to say, of your international connections for distribution..

what a company as such may find if exposed for such mindset, is a boycott of it's products.

If you think about what you say, but you probably can't see it because you are in it.. but when Unions come, they also come because of working conditions and poor benefit packages. anything over 40 hrs a weeks is overtime.. and if you've had the luxury of not paying premium pay for 10 hrs over, weekly for 10 years, you are lucky that your company is not fined and made to pay back pay to these employees.

Being Seasonal, only implies that each season you have a line of products,.. therefore, then each season, all fashion changes for each season.. which people buy clothes based on seasonal styles and seasonal colors.. and as with any business, there are high and lows, Spring and Summer is High, but also winder fashion is as well a sell point.

but as with anything, when people don't want to do something, all matter can becomes reasons.

Calif. workman's comp. is not new, the law made drastic changes in 2003/04, so this should not be a surprise, When Arnold came to office that was on thing he changed right away, but it also made it better for companies, because it put containments on what employees could get, even to them getting no more than 3/4 pay for a day.

you may ask yourself, how many of your employee put in 50 hrs and still may be at the poverty line? does your employees have the earning to support having a second medical plan, just to protect their family,

You sound like Wal Mart, who wants to give people substandard medical packages, but them want to profit from the prescription and they also even have tried to be providers of medical services, while still giving their employees a sub standard medical coverage. they had to go back and pay people for the extra hrs they were mandated to work, without being paid OT, and they had to go back and pay even for the people who were worked thru their lunch, as well as go back and pay women, who were under-payed in relation to the men. and as some companies, when it comes to medical coverage, pay a portion, but they also keep the wages lowered for every penny they pay, and some even will pay 1.75 per hour more if they don't provide coverage,

In the California, if you employees, average under 10hr. they are in poverty.. even if they make 12. hr they are challenged as a family. 12 hr. is $1920 , and once taxes are taken from that, just fed alone is no less than 23% that put their wage at 1480, and state and SSI, state disability, taken from that may leave them near $1200. and one can't rent a decent place for a couple of people for less than $1000. now if they still have to pay for medical coverage for their family, a cheap family plan is going to cost them no less than $120 a month, that leaves them $80.. now they have to have fuel or bus fare to get to work, and they have not even thought about clothing, food, utilities and incidentals..

so before you complain, do the math, not just yours, but the people who's labor make your company function. Now if your company is gaining 15-45% profit margin.. then maybe it may need to rethink, that and look at what money actually earns in the investment sector.. and people are doing good if they can get 8% return on their money.

the picture does not look the same when you truly acknowledge both sides of it, and then look into the details. many business, the benefit package can be an average of 1/3 and upwards, to what people actually earn per hrs.. depending on the size and income of the business, there are some places, where the benefit package is equal to the hourly wage when it's broken down.. and they plan their budgets accordingly.. but they also plan their write off, accordingly..

In the US, you can't run a sweat shop nature of business, it should and in some cases must have and meet the standards of being a business that support the integrity of the stature of the nations claim, as being a business that meet with what America claims as it's model of a higher standard of living for the working public. and be involved in promoting, packaging and distribution of foreign made product, and expect to sustain those and higher margins, without paying the cost of what business is..

An it will change even more, because this country is going to start looking even more at business that deal in foreign made products, and have high profit margin, and offer lowered benefits and contribute to the diminishing production of products on US soil..

they hey day, of making such gains, when contributing less to the American model, are going to find themselves with some serious challenges..

there's an average of 11 holidays in the US... if you only have to meet 7 of them, you are not that bad off..

the United States does not have national holidays (i.e. days where all employees in the U.S. receive a day free from work and all business is halted). The U.S. Federal government can only recognize national holidays that pertain to its own employees; it is at the discretion of each state or local jurisdiction to determine official holiday schedules. There are eleven such "Federal holidays", ten annual and one quadrennial holiday. The annual Federal holidays are widely observed by state and local governments; however, they may alter the dates of observance or add or subtract holidays according to local custom. Pursuant to the Uniform Holidays Bill of 1968 (taking effect in 1971), official holidays are observed on a Monday, except for New Year's Day, Independence Day, Veterans Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas. There are also U.S. state holidays particular to individual U.S. states.

for the sake of Humor :suppose they made all these as paid Holidays.

Days

* 36 U.S.C. § 104 – Carl Garner Federal Lands Cleanup Day (First Saturday after Labor Day)
* 36 U.S.C. § 105 – Child Health Day (The President is requested to issue each year a proclamation designating the first Monday in October as Child Health Day)
* 36 U.S.C. § 106 – Constitution Day and Citizenship Day (September 17)
* 36 U.S.C. § 107 – Columbus Day (The President is requested to issue each year a proclamation designating the second Monday in October as Columbus Day.)
* 36 U.S.C. § 109 – Father's Day (Third Sunday in June)
* 36 U.S.C. § 110 – Flag Day (June 14)
* 36 U.S.C. § 111 – Gold Star Mother's Day (Last Sunday in September)
* 36 U.S.C. § 113 – Law Day, U.S.A. (May 1)
* 36 U.S.C. § 114 – Leif Erikson Day (The President may issue each year a proclamation designating October 9 as Leif Erikson Day.)
* 36 U.S.C. § 115 – Loyalty Day (May 1)
* 36 U.S.C. § 116 – Memorial Day
* 36 U.S.C. § 117 – Mother's Day (Second Sunday in May)
* 36 U.S.C. § 118 – National Aviation Day (August 19)
* 36 U.S.C. § 119 – National Day of Prayer (First Thursday in May)
* 36 U.S.C. § 120 – National Defense Transportation Day (The President is requested to issue each year a proclamation designating the third Friday in May as National Defense Transportation Day.)
* 36 U.S.C. § 124 – National Freedom Day (February 1)
* 36 U.S.C. § 125 – National Grandparents' Day (The President is requested to issue each year a proclamation designating the first Sunday in September after Labor Day as National Grandparents Day.)
* 36 U.S.C. § 127 – National Korean War Veterans Armistice Day (July 27 of each year until 2003)
* 36 U.S.C. § 128 – National Maritime Day (May 22)
* 36 U.S.C. § 129 – National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day (December 7)
* 36 U.S.C. § 134 – Pan American Aviation Day (The President may issue each year a proclamation designating December 17 as Pan American Aviation Day.)
* 36 U.S.C. § 135 – Parents' Day (Fourth Sunday in July)
* 36 U.S.C. § 136 – Peace Officers Memorial Day (The President is requested to issue each year a proclamation designating May 15 as Peace Officers Memorial Day in honor of Federal, State, and local officers killed or disabled in the line of duty.)
* 36 U.S.C. § 140 – Stephen Foster Memorial Day (The President may issue each year a proclamation designating January 13 Stephen Foster Memorial Day.)
* 36 U.S.C. § 141 – Thomas Jefferson's birthday (April 13)
* 36 U.S.C. § 142 – White Cane Safety Day (The President may issue each year a proclamation designating October 15 as White Cane Safety Day.)
* 36 U.S.C. § 143 – Wright Brothers Day (December 17)
* 36 U.S.C. § 144 – Patriot Day (September 11)
* 36 U.S.C. § 145 – Halloween (October 31)

the picture is much broader in the over all.. than what you depict, on the personal side from your perspective.. when the whole picture if laid out.. the elements are much different..

there are law changes, at various levels of employees, such as 1-15, and 0ver 50 employees, and over 100 employees and such.. and going from a small business to a growth business who's employee base has grown... companies have to factor this in... as it grows, not act as if it's a surprise.. because these are laws that has been on the books for years. some companies, as their numbers grow, can also be subjected to HR audits, to see if they are complying with Federal Guidelines of Hiring Practices and the EEOC regulations, and from what you said at an earlier post.. you don't hire many mixed groups of minorities, but as with many companies, especially in CA, they try to hire Hispanic, because they can pay them less. and they discriminate against other minorities by the acts of exclusion and omission to hire them, and some do it by various means, for irregular requirements, and criteria that is selectively applied and other means.

As I said the south has tax advantages, but it has grown to become more National with respecting Federal Laws.. but they do offer various Tax inventive program.. but that does not mean they will let a company operate illegally.. or skirt the laws both state and Federal.. But many of the States that now allow such, will find that to be changing, as this nation reviews all it's policy of how States circumvent various laws.. and how offshore production in handled when their distribution point is housed in the US... and even to transact business direct shipments from foreign locations, as an American company, seeking to circumvent the labor creation in this country, will pay higher capital gains taxes.. Eventually... you have to pay the piper.. if you plan to play the melody..

You may even find Europe, adding some nature of VAT and other Tariff increase for direct importation from the Factory, to avoid taxation and meeting the International Product movenment guidelines..
China, will be faced with not much longer the courtesy afforded to developing countries to ahve their product moved across borders with limited tariffs, because now it is a power house, and it's soon will have to pay what developed countries pay, to move their stuff across borders.. so those loop holes may soon be closing, globally, for many who have had the luxury of gain from production in offshore factories.. The imbalances have finally shown up on the books, in various countries, showing their red lined losses by such policy, without making the timely amendments. and companies, that continue, may well be hit with windfall taxation on their higher gains by such means..

Bottom line is it cost money to make money, and the more money you make the more the cost is to make that money.. and that hold true as being a company or an individual.. if if the profits continue to go up, the cost will equally so.. the benefit is, the % volume may look less, but the actual dollar value in the pocket is more than it was.

that's the nature of checks and balances within a system of enterprise of the economic model.. and that's what keeps this nations functioning as a nation..with the things it provides as a nation. otherwise, it would look no different than some of the poorest nations, of Asian or South America...

I doubt seriously, that a company that employs less than 500 or more people should have to have a child care facility.. that's not truly logical.. because 500 people would create an average of 130 or so per shift, for a 24/7r operations to cover days off per shift.. and it's no way that the child care would be set of as a free option, the employees would pay for it, and what they pay, would equal the cost to operate it.. it would be a not for Profit division, and probably provide heavy write off for the company, in facility depreciation deductions as well as other deductions that are part of such a enterprise.. Until such becomes a national program and mandated to corporations, small to medium business would not be faced to engage it, and even if either large or small business had to do so, the compensating balances would be set up to make it a 0 sum, element, and more than likely more a benefit by some nature of write off program for the company.. but most companies would simply contract such a service and pay for it by employee deductions.


victorylee0516
(victoria lee)
41F

8/26/2008 9:16 pm

We are a fashion design house with a factory in China and clients in North America and Europe. We will change the business model from shipping the product to the USA for final quality control. Instead, we will do the final quality control at a different facility from the factory and then ship directly to our clients. All custom design will still be sent to the USA for final QC. Our new Nevada office will only consist of two full time staff members and maybe four part time workers.

Our taxes in California are going up and the obligations to fund social programs are starting to cut into our profit margins. It's one thing to be compassionate towards our workers and meet their needs but when it becomes government/politician driven as to what we need to compensate our workers and what our profit margins are, then it's time to pack up and move on. It is a real shame too since we will be laying off over 70 workers in our North American operations.

Now we are required to fund:

Workmen's compensation

Worker's medical/health plan
--- Now forced to add their family to the plan with us making most of the monthly premium payments

Childcare
--- Some women with children are demanding we provide a free childcare center for their children.
--- This often leads to a requirement to provide preschool for the children.

Holidays and time off
--- We used to give five paid holidays and two optional holidays. Now we have to pay for Martin Luther King and Cesar Chavez.
--- We are a seasonal company with various peak periods. Now we cannot have ten hour work days without going over fifty hours in a week or working more then five days a week.

Lots of stuff like that. In addition, some the more recent workers want to form a union. Ok, they can have their little union but it does not mean they are going to have a place to work.

Easier sometimes to declare bankruptcy and start over somewhere else.


touch213 69M

8/26/2008 11:47 am

California, has ran away many industries with it's regulations and taxes and other impositions... but this is the result of many rich people, wanting to live with higher levels of controls, but forget quickly how and what got them to be rich. CA, is loosing in more ways than it can manage, it's employment base is curtailed by many factors, which in and of itself has caused the state to be in default on it's budgets ability to balance..
it does unequal shifts in tax resources, where it let's areas fall, while it builds and expands, but then the result is a lot of unmaintained cities.. and the cost of new entrants in business is far too great to inspire people to be in business.

they set a standard of living, that can't be met by the small individual nor the developing business.. and business see their margins thinner, which curtails it's growth ability.
there are many man things that are in the fine line details, that now, the government seeks ways to try and gain more by those fine line items, while ignores the other challenges business face.. Insurances are at such a high premium in the state, that liability coverage of business and it's needs, are astronomical.

The state system is not run very well in the concept of what it needs to adjust and how it needs to manage its own expanding rules and impositions.

the movie industry has moved much production to the South, bu8t what people are not paying attention to, is the South is the new place for business, their rules are not choking, nor are their other elements, which is why so much is transition here, even the open gate for tax reductions for new entrants or transfer business ..

You might want to look at the South for expansion, for production, as the labor pool is vast, and the right to work state laws, are more favorable especially from production business of any sort..

Land is less expensive, and there are many things, .. you may want to have your sister to take a broader look, before she selects on a location... contact some of the cities in the south, and ask questions and even visit their web locations, and see what is available.. and you may find the South is quite attractive in more ways than one would think. The Area of the ArkLaTex... has a lot of benefits..

and even for yourself, the money may not be top dollar, but the medical field here is also with much options, to develop and coordinate and grow your business.. even in your own chosen field.. and if you look at what you can accomplish in a long term objective, then you could find that it has a great % factor in the south, to be able to meet such goals..

As to SFO, they are cutting their own throats, but they want to be a cutting edge region, but the problem is, now they face a Global market, and they are far and often challenged by the advanced development from foreign entities, and their only concept to compete is higher cost .. and that is the same factor that is causing them to loose.. because it negates the business ability to modernize and expand it's production unit.. so the option becomes for business to seek to relocate out side of the state..

you might want to look at Louisiana.. you may be surprised at what the spectrum offers..

Louisiana operates under the civil codes, as does various European sectors,
but take a strong look, I recall before you mentioned moving to an Asian location, but now you are looking at staying in the US borders.. so .. don't limit the view to just the Western US... and there may be some jewels of options within the spectrum..


Greatmojo4us2008 65M
9 posts
8/26/2008 9:30 am

You can get a great house & lifestyle in Incline Village or near the Reno area...What sort of business is it?...